It is currently Thu 17. Jun 2021 23:32:42

All times are UTC + 1 hour





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
  Print view Previous topic | Next topic 
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon 18. Apr 2016 19:34:04 
Offline

Joined: Fri 26. Sep 2014 20:08:26
Posts: 86
This weekend I finally updated from 1.3.2 to 2.0.1 on my little X3 (my test bird). Got the governor setup and working properly on the bench, and then started work on the autorotation bailout (ARB). After quite a few iterations I finally got it working by making adjustments to the min, max and rampup parameters. I'm still not perfectly clear on how these parameters modify the throttle signal going to the ESC, so if anybody could explain that it would be greatly appreciated!

Anyway, I now have a throttle hold (TH) and throttle cut (TC) setup on my transmitter. TC sends a value of zero, which always activates the soft start in the Spirit. My TH, on the other hand, sends a higher value such that the motor stops turning, but activates what I'll call the bailout start. The bailout start is very rapid and definitely not recommended if the blades are not moving, and certainly not when on the ground.

I believe I read somewhere that as a safety measure the bailout start cannot be activated until after the governor has been activated. Is this true? I would have tested this, but I forgot and now have the pinion and blades installed for my maiden.

Also, when tuning the Spirit I typically fly, land, tweak using bluetooth, and then take off. In this scenario, the governor has been activated and my heli is sitting on the ground. If I flick out of TH I think the bailout start would engage (and make a mess).

Now that I've typed all this I think I had better take the pinion and blades back off and test some more. I may need to program a safety measure in my Taranis to handle this scenario if its possible.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon 18. Apr 2016 20:17:56 
Offline

Joined: Thu 08. Oct 2015 14:43:12
Posts: 204
Location: Switzerland
Gov with Bailout is a straight forward concept, all what's relevant is what you see on Spirit diagnostics.

Below 50% TC gets straight Forward to ESC.
Once above 50% Gov is engaged with requested rpm = max rpm * %
Now if you reduce now TC, but stay above 12% Bailout is activated, which means approximately spoolup in 1/3 of regular spoolup time.
If TC gets now below 12% next Spoolup is normal.
Try it with a Servos instead a ESC or with Y-Cable, you will see Servos move to monitor what's going to ESC.

As I use only Bailout during Auro Training, I use line 0% for Hold, Normal 75% Mode 1 90% and Mode2 100%.
I did add a Switch called Auro Training, which adds 15% but only on Hold.
Means no Bailout during normal operation, but if I do Auro for Training, I arm Bailout with the Switch.

It also depends on how you use your ESC and if there is a build in Bailout in ESC with it's own thresholds.
You might have a look on my Step by Step guide for CC Edge ESC based on combination of ESC bailout and Spirit Bailout together.
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1364

_________________
Oxy4max SpiritPro + HW // SOXOS 550, SpiritPro, HW120A V4, 920KV // SOXOS 600, SpiritPro, HW160A, Pyro650 // SOXOS Strike7, SpiritPro, HW160A, Pyro750 // Skywing Spirit Aero // FrSky Horus X10S + Taranis X7 /


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue 19. Apr 2016 2:56:15 
Offline

Joined: Fri 26. Sep 2014 20:08:26
Posts: 86
Thanks for the help. I'm using the HW ESC in airplane mode (no gov and no soft start).

Before starting to set up ARB, throttle in Spirit diagnostic screen reports 0% at low stick and 100% at high stick. Min and max are at defaults of 1100 and 1900.

Once getting ARB working correctly, my min and max are set to 900 and 1900, respectively. Also rampup is 150. What do I mean by working correctly? When I flick into TH, my motor comes to a full stop. When I flick out of TH, the motor spools up very aggressively (like a half a second to full speed). It is not 1/3 the normal spoolup time. My assumption is that this is working correctly. Maybe I am wrong. Does your motor come to a full stop in TH? When I initially set TH to be just above 12.5%, my motor is still running at a pretty good speed.

With my min/max=900/1900 what I see in the diagnostic screen is: low stick = -11%, high stick = 94% and throttle hold (right where motor no longer turns) = 22%.

I'm not understanding these diagnostic screen values. Also wondering how to compute the min, max and rampup parameters instead of finding them by trial and error.


Last edited by btheli on Wed 20. Apr 2016 12:28:34, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue 19. Apr 2016 3:34:07 
Offline

Joined: Sat 14. Nov 2015 8:08:20
Posts: 131
I dont think you need to adjust the throttle values if you have an adjustable esc. I have the hw esc in my goblin 500 with using spirit gov and I never changed the endpoints. Just made sure the diagnostic screen read 0 at low and 100 at high, activated gov, did my max hs and gear ratio then tested the spool up and hs percentage w my throttle curves. I havent setup the arb yet but I assume it would work if I tried it. I had a nasty tail kick when flipping off throttle hold so I ended up switching the esc to heli linear and now theres no kick. I did that based on what Tomas suggested if your not using the spirits arb.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue 19. Apr 2016 10:39:25 
Offline

Joined: Fri 26. Sep 2014 20:08:26
Posts: 86
Alyon187 wrote:
I dont think you need to adjust the throttle values if you have an adjustable esc. I have the hw esc in my goblin 500 with using spirit gov and I never changed the endpoints. Just made sure the diagnostic screen read 0 at low and 100 at high, activated gov, did my max hs and gear ratio then tested the spool up and hs percentage w my throttle curves. I havent setup the arb yet but I assume it would work if I tried it. I had a nasty tail kick when flipping off throttle hold so I ended up switching the esc to heli linear and now theres no kick. I did that based on what Tomas suggested if your not using the spirits arb.


Thanks, but everything I'm asking about here has to do with setting up the ARB. Everything about calibrating the ESC and setting up the spirit gov worked perfectly.

I've heard people interchange the word rescue with bailout, so just to be clear, I am talking about bailout, which is the rapid spoolup of the motor needed to bail out of a botched autorotation. It saves you in the air, but kills you on the ground!

I would be very interested in hearing about your experience in setting up ARB.

By the way, I had the nasty tail kick too. I got rid of it by reducing the rampup time until the motor just starts to spoolup after flicking out of TH. Put differently, with the rampup time to low I had a delay before spoolup, and when I had it too high I had the tail kick.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue 19. Apr 2016 19:41:38 
Offline

Joined: Thu 08. Oct 2015 14:43:12
Posts: 204
Location: Switzerland
Assuming things work as expected wit no ARB, also spoolup, lets go back to this know point and start from there.

Adjust your Diagnostics to get 0..100% from Hold to full throttle.
Set 1100 and 1940 min max range, (HW factory setting)
Set rampup to 0us (there will be a delay now, what we are looking for)
If you did ESC calibration, it's time to do it over again with these min max values set.
As you said, ESC should now work with no ARB, also spoolup should be fine, right?
Now increase throttle hold value in TX till you see start of Motor, please report what you see now on diagnotics as your motor start value. Reduce Hold again as before.

Calculation will follow on your reported value.

_________________
Oxy4max SpiritPro + HW // SOXOS 550, SpiritPro, HW120A V4, 920KV // SOXOS 600, SpiritPro, HW160A, Pyro650 // SOXOS Strike7, SpiritPro, HW160A, Pyro750 // Skywing Spirit Aero // FrSky Horus X10S + Taranis X7 /


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed 20. Apr 2016 2:29:54 
Offline

Joined: Fri 26. Sep 2014 20:08:26
Posts: 86
Okay, I followed your steps:

Diagnostics from 0% to 100%
Min/max set to 1100/1940
Rampup set to 10us (lowest allowed by Spirit)
Gov off and recalibrated HW
Gov back on and spoolup worked properly (with delay of course)
Slowly increased TH until motor just started. Diagnostic reads 4%. TX outputting 1141us


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed 20. Apr 2016 4:19:09 
Offline

Joined: Fri 26. Sep 2014 20:08:26
Posts: 86
Kept playing with it and found the following to work well:

Min 1060
Max 1940
Rampup 90

Softstart (TC) begins immediately and increases correctly.
Bailout (TH) spools very rapid but not instant full power like before.
Diagnostic shows 11% in hold (bailout switch)

Still very interested in your calculation. Im happy, but I don't like trial and error to find these values!


Sent from my phone using Tapatalk


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed 20. Apr 2016 13:52:03 
Offline

Joined: Thu 08. Oct 2015 14:43:12
Posts: 204
Location: Switzerland
Have the following concept in mind:
% are values seen on Spirits Diagnostics these and only these are relevant for Spirit
(microSeconds / us) is whats send from ESC to Spirit

1) TX Sends 0..100% to Spirit
2) Spirits maps these 0% to min Range and 100% to max Range

Calculative Way:
Lets move min max range to get a nice overlap where Motor does not spin but Spirit sees above 12% for ARB activation.
Range = (max - min) = 1940-1100 = 840us
Spool = (range * Spool%) + min = 840 * 4% + 1100 = 1133us towards ESC.

For ARB activation, TC once above 50% should not go below 12%, lets aim for 15% to be on safe side.
So new 100% Range equals = (max - Spool) / (100%-15%) = (1940-1133) / 85% = 950us
min Range = (max - range) = 1940-950 = 990us
Ramp up = (Spool - min) = 1130-990 = 140us to close the gap for immediate Spool up after Hold release.

What we have done now:
0% = 990us (for Init ESC)
On Hold Release Spool up starts with 1130us (990us + 140us)
15% on Diagnostics will be the threshold for ESC to start to spin.

From this stage all you have to do, is to control with your TX the % on Diagnostics.
I use a Switch on my TX called AR Training. If I enable this switch, it adds 14% in Diagnostics on Hold and only on Hold.
If this switch is enabled coming out of GOV engaged, ARB is Active on next Hold Release, Spool up fast in like 3 Sec. (pending on Spoolup Rate Setting)
Flicking the Switch, as TC goes down to 0% and back to 14%, next Hold Release will be slow an Initial Spool up.
I only use mixer doing Auro Training, in all other cases I don't want ARB activated.
Remember redoing Calibration with these values will break ARB activation, as Motor will spin on Hold with AR Active.

For the once doing it by Trail and Error:
1) Set TX to get 0%..100% on Diagnostics
2) Set initial values 1100 and 1940us
3) Calibrate your ESC on these range
4) Reduce min Range to 950us
5) increase ramp-up value till there is now delay on spool up
6) Add Mixer on Hold only for AURO Training, increase value till you see 15% in Diagnostics, Motor should not start.
7) if mixer is active and Gov was engaged, on next Hold release you got Auro Bailout Spoolup

Let me know, Adrian

_________________
Oxy4max SpiritPro + HW // SOXOS 550, SpiritPro, HW120A V4, 920KV // SOXOS 600, SpiritPro, HW160A, Pyro650 // SOXOS Strike7, SpiritPro, HW160A, Pyro750 // Skywing Spirit Aero // FrSky Horus X10S + Taranis X7 /


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed 20. Apr 2016 17:54:50 
Offline

Joined: Fri 26. Sep 2014 20:08:26
Posts: 86
Thanks for walking me through the calculation. The math is straightforward; the huge value to me is the underlying concept of what you are doing to compute the new range, min and rampup.

I will test this out tonight after work and will report back what I find.

One thing that has really been a point of confusion for me is this statement on page 66 of the manual:

Governor Bailout function can be activated whenever the throttle signal
is higher than 1250 μs which is approx. 12% throttle curve. If the signal is
lower then smooth spoolup sequence is activated.

I had thought that perhaps 1250 was a fixed number that regardless of min/max would be the boundary between slow and bailout spoolup, but that does not seem to be the case. Even assuming a min/max of 1100/1900 does not give 1250us as being 12% throttle. What am I missing here?


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC + 1 hour


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron



Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
skymiles_red v1.0.1 designed by Team -Programming forum-سيارات للبيع .