Spirit System

Soft spool up times for each setting
Page 1 of 1

Author:  kirby_ [ Mon 16. Nov 2015 18:25:55 ]
Post subject:  Soft spool up times for each setting

I want only the Spirit to control spool up and auto bailout. So I have set my HobbyWing ESC to airplane mode. Has anyone timed the spool up rates in the 1.3.1 software? I don't really do autos yet, so this is mostly about spool up rate. I'm looking for some estimate of how many seconds each of the four options takes from TH to full RPM.

Also, is there any reason I shouldn't be using "airplane" mode on the ESC? I really don't like having two things trying to control the spool up and auto bailout.

Author:  Coco66 [ Mon 16. Nov 2015 19:02:18 ]
Post subject:  Re: Soft spool up times for each setting

I would think that spool up times will vary depending on the ESC, no?

Author:  kirby_ [ Mon 16. Nov 2015 19:24:42 ]
Post subject:  Re: Soft spool up times for each setting

Coco66 wrote:
I would think that spool up times will vary depending on the ESC, no?

If that is true then there is something fundamental I don't understand. Here is how I understand things:

- Setup HobbyWing ESC to airplane mode. In this mode, the ESC immediately does exactly what the throttle signal tells it. If I had only my RX talking to my ESC in this mode, going from 0 (Thr Hold) to 100 throttle instantly would likely strip my gears because the ESC will actually try and apply full power from a dead stop.

- Setup Spirit governor and Spirit "Spoolup Rate". Since the ESC is "out of the way" so to speak, the only thing controlling soft spool up speed is the Spirit FBL. The spoolup rate should be determined only by the "rate" setting in the Spirit software.

Do I have this right? If so, my question is how much time does each "rate" take: "very slow", "slow", "fast", "very fast"

Author:  Adrian [ Mon 16. Nov 2015 21:40:50 ]
Post subject:  Re: Soft spool up times for each setting

Kirby, you are absolutely right. But it also depends on whole system, how fast Spirit will spool up, as Zex said it's adaptive.
I suggest to start with slow, if you like more speed try fast or very fast.

But keep in mind: On some ESC, Airplane mode requires full throttle and stop to learn throttle range every time. If you got full throttle on Power up, Spirit remains in pass trough mode and won't engage in Gov Mode, this is to adjust range, but means violent spool up if you get into this mode. Usually also Low Pass filters are applied in Airplane mode to smoothen a bit prop reaction, this is not what you like with external Gov, as you need fast and crisp reaction to run Gov successful. Therefore most ESC offer External Governor mode or the common V-Curve mode. This helps to avoid any violent spool up, as it's applied by default, but interferes with Spirit Bailout spool up.
You might think about Multi rotor Mode for crisp reaction, that's the right thing, but be careful, as violent Spool-up can occur as well by accident. Thinks of the following: Power up Stunt Mode with no Hold, Throttle out at 85%, Pull Hold, ESC initiates, release Hold, no ramp up but Spirit is in pass trough mode (as It thinks you want to adjust ranges), immediately 85% to ESC, burn ESC, tip over striped gears...
There are solutions, with drawbacks as you see, I suggest to forget about Bailout on electric at the moment, as it's currently designed to meet nitro and gasser with servo.
As I understand, development is working on better implementation of electric bailout, to fix this known issues.

I use External Governor Mode with fixed endpoints, ESC doing Spool-up, Spirit in Fast and I'm very happy with Spoolup and Gov performance:
Follow this setup guide I did share: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=996#p12017

Author:  kirby_ [ Mon 16. Nov 2015 22:03:16 ]
Post subject:  Re: Soft spool up times for each setting

Wow, I didn't realize it was this complicated. Using a HobbyWing V3 50A (and 100A on another bird), what is the recommended aircraft type in the ESC? I would choose "Heli (No Gov)" except I think with that mode the ESC imposes an 11s spool up time.

Author:  MyRCode [ Tue 17. Nov 2015 7:25:13 ]
Post subject:  Re: Soft spool up times for each setting

I tried HW 100 on airplane mode with the Spirit Gov on very slow spool up and it was still too violent of a spool up. It would spin 180 degrees flipping to idle up.

Having the HW set to heli mode but with Gov off was much better.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

Author:  ZeXx86 [ Tue 17. Nov 2015 12:15:41 ]
Post subject:  Re: Soft spool up times for each setting

To make it less violnent, you have to modify throttle curve for Hold mode. Because when you start, Spirit will spool up from the configured Hold value very slowly. But if it is high, then the initial spoolup can be too agressive. So then it should be very smooth with Airplane mode too.

Author:  kirby_ [ Wed 18. Nov 2015 4:55:04 ]
Post subject:  Re: Soft spool up times for each setting

Ok, I'm confused. Let me give more info about my setup.

  • I have a HobbyWing V3 50A and 100A both with a Spirit
  • I don't use a normal mode, only three Idle up modes and throttle hold. I don't have a "throttle curve" tied to the collective stick. Just a fixed value sent on the throttle channel depending on flight mode (TH = -100, IU1 = +56, IU2 = +62, IU3 = +70). My TX uses a -100 to +100 scale for all channels. I picked these throttle values above by looking at the requested RPM in the Spirit software and adjusting until I got the head speed values I wanted.
  • On Spirit, Throttle->Min/Max are set to -100 and +100 respectively. When I calibrated the HW ESC, I didn't need to adjust these at all. I had Spirit connected to the ESC via Throttle cable, I sent +100 from my TX, heard the beeps, sent -100 from my TX, heard the beeps and I was calibrated.

When I come out of throttle hold, the throttle channel value Spirit sees goes from -100 to +56 immediately. As I understand things, the Spirit is going to ramp the throttle value it sends to the ESC between -100 and whatever it needs to do to get to the requested RPM. The higher the "soft spool up" setting in Spirit, the faster it will make this transition to the requested RPM.

So I guess if set "very fast" combined with a requested RPM that required near +100 throttle to the ESC I would get a violent initial start. Given that I don't use a normal mode, I won't have a throttle curve tied to the collective stick. I guess what I should do is just time the spool up myself in various "soft spool up" settings until I get the speed I want. If that leads to a violent initial start, then I could program a really low RPM IU1 mode and use that to get the spool up started. Am I on the right track?

Finally, is there any reason I should be using "Heli (No Gov)" mode on the HW ESC? It feels like Airplane mode is the right way to getting the ESC out of Spirit's way, but I've misunderstood this before.

Author:  ZeXx86 [ Wed 18. Nov 2015 14:17:32 ]
Post subject:  Re: Soft spool up times for each setting

Your setup process seems to be correct. You can easily try Spool up rates without blades. Until you will use very fast spoolup you do not have to be afraid.
If you know that you will not use Bailout function of the Governor, I recommend to use Gov off settings in the Hobbywing ESC, because it will take care of very smooth spoolup and transitions in case that something is not configured properly.

Author:  Adrian [ Wed 18. Nov 2015 22:23:59 ]
Post subject:  Re: Soft spool up times for each setting

Out of Hobby Wing manual, in Heli GOV OFF mode it always takes at least 11 Seconds as ESC is controlling spool-up on top of Spirit, there very fast could improve.

In Airplane fixed wing Mode ESC goes from 0 to full speed in 0.3 Seconds, there you need Spirit to take care of Spool up.
This will work yes and you can test start with very slow. But there is a important note in the manual on page 65:

"Even when governor is enabled you can program the ESC so that the unit is initialized with high throttle position. 
In this case governor will be inactive from this point until the unit is restarted."

This means, if you by accident power on the unit with UI3 70% enabled, there is no governor engaged, if you hit now Hold, ESC will initiate, if you go out of Hold, you gonna see UI3 70% within 0.3 Seconds.

Well this is not the normal start procedure I know, but can happen if you don't take care.
I could also happen if you switch bank or disable Gov for some testing in Spirit.
I would not take this risk by just gaining a bit of quicker start time, but rather wait for future FW releases.

Page 1 of 1 All times are UTC + 1 hour
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group